2008 MUGEN SI PICS

[Nikku]

that is, if it doesnt get stolen first. :/

[EK29K]

yeah if you do buy one obvisously make sure you lock it up....there are already pics on honda-tech of mugen civics left of rotors with all the badges gone. damn thieves. and this was at the dealerships.

[JdmMik3]

for the car to get stolen here where i live (MAINE a bunch of old people) is highly doubt full plus living on a naval base is always good

[2JZFTMFW]

technically any spoiler is functional, it depends upon how fast you are going in the car you are in to what degree well, that would lie in the numbers, and many many other factors. in your car, in the civic, you wouldnt notice a difference with or without the wing. in a 200mphish car, you will notice a difference and you will want for sure. overall the car (civic) looks ok, not ugly, not hot, i myself probably wouldnt want the wing on a civic, just because it looks terrible. that wing belongs on a car like an evolution...which the evo has, and pulls off. lol.

While I appreciate your attempt at knowledge, you're way off base.

There is a significant function to having a spoiler on a RWD car.
It adds downforce to the drive wheels at moderate to high speeds...not just 200mph.

The MKIV spoiler, for instance, provides 66lbs of downforce at a measly
90mph!!!!
I'm no math professor, but I'm sure that becomes significantly more at 150mph or more.

http://mkiv.com/specifications/product_ ... p20_41.jpg

http://www.mkiv.com/publications/road&t ... 393_03.jpg

A rear spoiler on a FWD is pretty much non-functional, being the drive wheels are in front...and while the downforce on the rear of the car may help stabilize it at high speeds, it will do nothing to help the car accelerate faster of handle any better...hence: non-functional.

[2JZFTMFW]

end thread hijack-----



and no, I STILL don't like the way it looks....

Love the stock look of the new Civics...not the Mugen Si.

I wish I had more hands, so I could give that car four thumbs down.

[Nikku]

While I appreciate your attempt at knowledge, you're way off base.

There is a significant function to having a spoiler on a RWD car.
It adds downforce to the drive wheels at moderate to high speeds...not just 200mph.

The MKIV spoiler, for instance, provides 66lbs of downforce at a measly
90mph!!!!
I'm no math professor, but I'm sure that becomes significantly more at 150mph or more.

http://mkiv.com/specifications/product_ ... p20_41.jpg

http://www.mkiv.com/publications/road&t ... 393_03.jpg

A rear spoiler on a FWD is pretty much non-functional, being the drive wheels are in front...and while the downforce on the rear of the car may help stabilize it at high speeds, it will do nothing to help the car accelerate faster of handle any better...hence: non-functional.

a wing does make a car more stable at speed, and the force generated by the wing is proportional to the speed that the car is traveling at. Putting a wing on any car will create downforce, no matter how small the force may be, the downforce is still being exerted, simply saying that its non functional because the car is not accelerating as fast is not accurate. its a simple case of physics and aerodynamics. remember, people way WAY smarter then you or I engineer these vehicles, and parts that go on them. another thing you may think about, if wings are so great, why isnt there one on the ferrari enzo? . again, its physics and aerodynamics, the ferrari enzo, for example, has no wing but its body has been designed in such a way to exert downforce thru its other body parts. We must remember that a wings function is not to add downforce to the drive wheels, rather, it is to add downforce to the body of the car to enhance grip while travelling at high speeds, cornering, etc. i am sure i can find some arbitrary figure of how much downforce the wing generates on that particular civic, does it matter? not really, as overall, that type of wing belongs on an Evo, which is has. but simply debating the looks of the car is also asinine as thats an opinion based matter .

[boostjunkie95]

Wings are for airplanes.

[2JZFTMFW]

a wing does make a car more stable at speed, and the force generated by the wing is proportional to the speed that the car is traveling at. Putting a wing on any car will create downforce, no matter how small the force may be, the downforce is still being exerted, simply saying that its non functional because the car is not accelerating as fast is not accurate. its a simple case of physics and aerodynamics. remember, people way WAY smarter then you or I engineer these vehicles, and parts that go on them. another thing you may think about, if wings are so great, why isnt there one on the ferrari enzo? . again, its physics and aerodynamics, the ferrari enzo, for example, has no wing but its body has been designed in such a way to exert downforce thru its other body parts. We must remember that a wings function is not to add downforce to the drive wheels, rather, it is to add downforce to the body of the car to enhance grip while travelling at high speeds, cornering, etc. i am sure i can find some arbitrary figure of how much downforce the wing generates on that particular civic, does it matter? not really, as overall, that type of wing belongs on an Evo, which is has. but simply debating the looks of the car is also asinine as thats an opinion based matter .

wow...that was a lot of nothing.


Whatever you gotta tell yourself to sleep at night, man.

For the record, an Enzo doesn't require a spoiler because it was designed not to need one. The body structure/shape already dispatches undesireable airflow, providing the car with enough downforce to maintain a perfect drag coefficient.
A spoiler on an Enzo would be excessive, and the car probably wouldn't be able to exceed 150MPH because of TOO MUCH friction/air resistance.

Regular passenger cars, ie: supra, civic, evo, etc....are not built like an Enzo, therefore produce a crapload more drag and lift.

[Nikku]

wow...that was a lot of nothing.


Whatever you gotta tell yourself to sleep at night, man.

this wasn't necessary.

For the record, an Enzo doesn't require a spoiler because it was designed not to need one. The body structure/shape already dispatches undesireable airflow, providing the car with enough downforce to maintain a perfect drag coefficient.[/QUOTE]

I said exactly (well, not verbatim) this in my post

A spoiler on an Enzo would be excessive, and the car probably wouldn't be able to exceed 150MPH because of TOO MUCH friction/air resistance.

Highly doubt it. if you think so, take a look at the bugatti veyron. (sp.) it can exceed 250MPH, it has a wing (granted, one you can move up and down yourself)

Regular passenger cars, ie: supra, civic, evo, etc....are not built like an Enzo, therefore produce a crapload more drag and lift.

going back to your statement about a wing putting force on the drive wheels, explain how a wing on an Evo, STi, Skyline is functional considering the vehicles are AWD.

food for thought

The same principle that allows an airplane to rise off the ground by creating lift under its wings is used in reverse to apply force that presses the race car against the surface of the track. This effect is referred to as "aerodynamic grip" and is distinguished from "mechanical grip," which is a function of the car mass repartition, tires and suspension. The creation of downforce by passive devices can only be achieved at the cost of increased aerodynamic drag (or friction), and the optimum setup is always a compromise between the two. The aerodynamic setup for a car can vary considerably between race tracks, depending on the length of the straights and the types of corners; some drivers also make different choices on setup. Because it is a function of the flow of air over and under the car, and because aerodynamic forces increase with the square of velocity, downforce increases with the square of the car's speed and requires a certain minimum speed in order to produce a significant effect. But some cars have had rather unstable aerodynamics, such that a minor change in angle of attack or height of the vehicle (for example, caused by a bump on the track or slipstreaming over a crest) has caused the car to experience lift, not downforce, sometimes with disastrous consequences. A notorious example of this was Mark Webber's Mercedes-Benz CLR in the 1999 Le Mans 24 hours, which flipped spectacularly after closely following a competitor car over a hump.

sourced from here click

the formula for downforce, as found on the previous link is listed as such
defined as

Where:

* D is downforce in newtons
* WS is wingspan in metres
* H is height in metres
* AoA is angle of attack
* F is drag coefficient
* ρ is air density in kg/m³
* V is velocity in m/s


Downforce has nothing to do with where the drivewheels are, it has to do with the speed of the vehicle as aerodynamic forces increase with the cars velocity. As I said before, you have to be moving at speed for it to have an affect on the car.

referring back to your post

Yes, they are both factory....difference is, the spoiler on a Supra is functional.
On a FWD Civic.....not so much.

and again here

A rear spoiler on a FWD is pretty much non-functional, being the drive wheels are in front...and while the downforce on the rear of the car may help stabilize it at high speeds, it will do nothing to help the car accelerate faster of handle any better...hence: non-functional.

you can see that these statements are not true, your opinion is that they (wings) dont look good on civics. hey, mine too, but claiming that they have no affect on the car just because its front wheel drive is not true. Thats like saying that because you are in china gravity goes up instead of down.

please also read here

click

here

click

here

click

for more information about aerodynamic as they apply to car racing.